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Friday, June 26, 2020

Glass Smart Insider June/July 2020

This is the link for the second issue.

https://www.flipsnack.com/GlassSmart/gsijunejuly2020.html

Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

Sunday, April 19, 2020

Glass Smart Insider EZine


Available free in an email attachment only.  The first issue (April/May 2020) has been completed and is being sent out right now.  The GSI is an international online publication available as an email subscription only.  It is focused on the discovery and development of products used in the surface maintenance and restoration of window surfaces.  Such products are based on specialty solvents, acids, alkalies, abrasives, surfactants, and application materials.  Such products are used on residential, commercial, and vehicular windows and mirrors.

Just send a request for membership along with your personal name and email address to henrygroverjr@gmail.com


Tuesday, April 7, 2020

Which Stain/Scratch Removal System is the Best?

Is there a best window cleaning kit on the market?  Is there a best squeegee on the market?  Is there even a squeegee that you would use for every window?  The obvious answer to these questions is no.  Further it does require skill to use any squeegee.  The same is true for the tools and commercial systems available for stain and scratch removal.  One person might actually damage a window with the same tools and system that another might do an excellent job with.  It is also possible that someone skilled in this line of work or technology could do the same quality of work with two different systems.

There are many stain/scratch removal systems on the market right now.  Some are more user friendly than others.  Some are more inexpensive than others.  Some are multi-step whereas others are just a one step.  Some use different compounds such as cerium oxide, silicon carbide, or diamond.  Some are dry except for the last step, whereas others are wet.  Some use a dry pad with a wet slurry (not a compound).  There are grinders and polishers which are rotary machines and operate at different rpms.  Then there are random orbitals, and random oscillators.  The pads can be leather, wool, synthetic wool, polyurethane, and many other different materials.  Some even use steel wool or bronze wool pads.  


I have a favorite squeegee that has an Unger handle with an Ettore Channel and a Black Diamond rubber.  Go figure.  I also run a zero degree angle.  This is my go to tool.  I might not be as fast as Alex Lacey and some others.  Never did the speed competition at the IWCA annual.  But I am very good.  Now there are restoration professionals out there that are truly amazing!  Like Marc Tanner.  I can take out scratches and remove stains.  Have used all the different compounds including diamond with great success.  But I can't come close to what Marc can do.  He is the King of Glass Restoration.  When he was beginning  years ago he started buying the commercial systems.  Spent a lot of money.  But ended up developing his own personal system.  Which he is very content with.  But is always looking for different products to add to his box.  I have talked with him a great deal about this technology and he always tells me every job is different.  Even one window can be very different from the one you just did.  For different reasons even.  So you will need to use different pads, compounds, polishers, and grinders.  These are the reasons why he developed his own system.  I do believe that anyone who wants to get into this line of work and do it right, will ultimately end up doing the same thing.  


Window glass restoration is a technology that requires a great deal of learning and training.  It doesn't come fast.  It is also loaded with dangers that absolutely must be learned.  Marc always says when you are starting out practice on your own glass.  Never practice on your customers windows.  My suggestion is to find someone who knows exactly what they are doing and pay them to train you first.  Before you put out any money for tools.  If you can too, find someone that has developed their own system.  My belief is that there really are no systems out there that are complete and free from glitches.


So after all that I have written I will answer the question which is the title of this post.  No!  There is no "best stain/scratch removal system" out there.  And you will waste a lot of time and money trying to find it.  What you will likely end up doing is taking from several different systems and companies to put together your own personal system.  If I can help you along the way just send me an email.


Henry Grover Jr.

henrygroverjr@gmail.com

  

   

Saturday, March 7, 2020

The Glass Smart Insider


The GSI is an online magazine or ezine that will be published once every two months starting with April/May 2020.  The focus of this publication is the surface maintenance and restoration technology of various glazing surfaces.  This includes the fenestration envelopes of commercial and residential buildings.  It also includes vehicular glazing as well.  This technology involves specific commercial and other products.  Which will be discussed in the articles.  All articles will be written by the professionals who have either developed and are selling said products.  Or the technicians/business owners who are using them.  I will be assisting in the writing and at times will be a coauthor.  But you are going to hear from some people in this publication that you have never met online before.  These people are true innovators and will be able to help you a great deal in your business.  They will help you with new techniques that are so badly needed in non-conventional window cleaning, glass restoration, and preservation/sealant application.  Plus much more.

There is an opportunity to advertise here too.  Both for the product manufacturers and sales companies.  Also all individual window cleaning and detail companies.  If you would like to know more about this please just send an email to henrygroverjr@gmail.com  If you would like to subscribe to the GSI which is free but only available by email please contact me by the same email included above.

Written by Henry Grover Jr.

Monday, February 3, 2020

Transcendence Through the Glass Smart Youtube Channel

You can read all about something and even watch it on a video, but until you actually do it with your own hands you truly do not understand.  The Glass Smart Youtube Channel is beginning to show how to test certain products and chemicals on glass for nonconventional/nonroutine window cleaning.  You can play these for your potential customers.  But until you actually do them yourself you will not fully understand.

For example do you know the difference between a vapor etch and a contact etch?  How do certain acids affect scratches?  How do certain acids affect glass surfaces?  When you see it and feel it you have "transcended" in your understanding.  You will have moved beyond a cursory knowledge.  So that you will be able to recognize the problems with different surfaces that you will be exposed to in your work.  What of negative deflection?  This is a concave curvature of the glass panes of an insulating glass unit that result from outgassing.  But until you actually pass your razor blade across a soapy window that has a negative curvature in one direction and then another you will not completely understand.  Transcendence is the actual doing.  That is what sets you apart from other window cleaners.  It also gives you a great edge over your competition.  Once again this is why I have started the Glass Smart Youtube Channel.  To show you the tests you can do yourself.  And make it easier for you to show these to your customers and potential customers.  Look at this video below.  It is VERY short.  But makes the point very quick that a little experience can save a customer a hundred thousand dollars in potentially wasted windows.



I have actually put the coin in a customers hand and had them do the test themselves.  Then do the same test on a very smooth window.  The response is total amazement.  Believe me they get it.  And have a brand new respect for what I do.  That is transcendence.

My goal is to bring this to my Meets.  Which I will be continuing this year.  I am starting local here in NH.  Hoping to include as many from New England as possible.  My intention is to go worldwide through the Glass Smart Youtube Channel. 

CLICK BELOW AND PLEASE SUBSCRIBE 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKzhmAWtlsHJiwRd6WrgGyA/videos

Written by Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

If you would like these posts to appear in your inbox as they are written just type your address in the box at the top right of this page, "Follow by Email".

Saturday, February 1, 2020

The PPP Meet / Glass Smart Training Classes










I am working on a Meet in the month of March midweek with Window Cleaning companies in New England.  The purpose is to discuss the technical details of developing specialty products for nonconventional window cleaning.  Problems involving the removal of stains from scratch sensitive glass surfaces and low e first surface windows will be talked about.  There will be new products and special chemicals shown.  Some demonstrated.  Although this is the reason why I began my Youtube Channel.  So you can watch discussions and demonstrations of the products I am developing.  Such as the new hard water spot removal pad from Kellerco Optik that I am currently working on with that company.  The compound is only half the answer.  The pad is the other half.

There is a very large problem that window cleaners have been working on regarding scratches.  My goal is to work very close with at least fifty different companies here in New England regarding this matter.  We must get word out to general contractors, home builders, real estate agents, insurance companies, lawyers, window manufacturers, glass companies, and more.  I have just started this by contacting these people face to face.  Everyone I talk to about this are VERY interested.  The time will come when people will start talking about scratches.  And demand that the companies they hire to clean their windows are educated.  They will want to know if they have defective scratch sensitive glass or not.  They will also want to know if their windows have any type of high tech coating on them.  Hopefully you will be able to join me for the first Glass Smart Training Class/PPP Meet.  This is completely free.  My goal is to work directly with you on specific jobs.  I will also have work to turn over to you since I am focusing more on my small store route and consulting work.  I want to move away from residential and commercial work.

Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

Monday, January 27, 2020

Glass Smart Training Classes

Scratched glass is becoming very common these days.  I really don't think there is a single house that doesn't have some scratch sensitive glass.  This IS bad glass.  These ARE defective surfaces.  Further this message must be communicated to everyone we work for.  Otherwise the lie will continue to live.  That the window cleaner bears full responsibility for any and all scratches.  We do share that responsibility, but we don't own it.  Many times we don't even share it.

My goal this year is to work with window cleaning companies in New England in becoming "Glass Smart" and educating their customers on how important this is.  My intention is to do that through this Blog, my Youtube Channel, and a series of hands on training classes and Meets at the Poor Peoples Pub.    Right now it is the end of January and the weather is warming up in New England.  I can see the residentials coming.  It is a perfect time to start working with companies to start an educational campaign.  My goal is the middle of March.

The location for these "Meets" will be The Poor Peoples Pub in Sanbornville NH.  The idea is to do them mid week from 2 to 5.

Written By Henry Grover J.
www.henrygroverjr@gmail.com


Tuesday, January 14, 2020

Who Should Pay For Scratched Glass?

OK People lets get real here.  If we clean windows we have scratched glass!  I have.  And it scares me every time I take on a job with brand new glass.  Because I know like you know that glass surfaces today are very scratch sensitive.  So;... the quality of the razor and the precision of the technique used are NOT the only reasons why glass scratches.  You can use the same exact razor and technique on two different windows and only scratch one.  The largest determining reason for scratches is actually scratch sensitivity.  Which is very difficult to quantify.  And the window cleaner is NOT responsible for scratch sensitive glass surfaces.  The manufacturer is.  But it is way too easy to put all the blame on the window cleaner.  Since before the windows were cleaned the windows were not scratched.  The window cleaner then has to defend himself.  Which is exceptionally difficult to do since very few people understand exactly what causes glass surfaces to be scratch sensitive.  All glass surfaces are believed to be the same and therefore the tools that are used to clean them are believed to be the means by which the windows are scratched.  I even had a customer tell me she believed the squeegee rubber scratched her windows!  I could not convince her otherwise.

This discussion is not however a discussion of how windows are scratched or why they are scratched, but rather who should pay for the damage.  I have written what I have here for the purpose of demonstrating how complicated by ignorance this issue is.  The problem in answering this question is we are looking for a singular scapegoat.  We are looking for a singular responsible entity.  When the reality is it is a "shared responsibility".  I mean why don't even the razor manufacturers do something to educate the window cleaner that there are windows out there that should not be touched by a razor blade?  Why don't the glass manufacturers put out some of the millions they make for the scientific research to determine exactly why some surfaces are scratch sensitive?  Why don't glass and window sales companies do more to inspect the surfaces of the products they sell?  Why don't general contractors perform inspections of the surfaces of the products they install?  And yes why don't we as window cleaners do more to first educate our customers about scratch sensitive glass?  Also why don't we as window cleaners make it much more of a practice to inspect the surfaces we clean before we use a razor or anything else to remove paint, etc?  Why don't we explore different products and techniques to remove debris from scratch sensitive glass surfaces?  Lastly why don't we as window cleaners have an all inclusive waiver signed by the owner and or general contractor we are working for?

When an insurance agency is approached by their client/window cleaning contractor over a specific building that had their windows scratched they have some detective work to do.  Simply because the insurance company that they use will likely deny the claim.  Leaving everyone without an answer.  Questions like are the windows scratch sensitive?  Did the window cleaner know about this ahead of time?  Does the window cleaner even know what scratch sensitivity is.  Was there a waiver put in place before the job began?  Was the insurance company asked about whether they would pay for a scratched glass lawsuit when the policy was purchased?  These are the questions that need to be answered to determine what percentage of the shared responsibility the window cleaner has.  But again I need to emphasize that this is a shared responsibility.

It is also necessary to learn whether the scratches were present before the cleaning.  Because they could have been created when the glass was moved, when the windows were put into storage, or when they were installed.  They might have been created by someone else such as a painter.  Then covered over by dirt.  And revealed when the windows were cleaned.  Since the window cleaner is the last contractor to work on the windows they will always be blamed for the scratches.  I have experienced this myself and believe that many thousands of window cleaners have also.

The bottom line here is that legal man must be called in to determine what the shared liability is with the help of the expert witness/glass consultant.  

Written by Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

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Monday, December 30, 2019

Stain Removal; Polishes Not Acids

Once window glass has become stained by hard water/mineral deposits it has been damaged.  Simply put there has been an exchange of atoms between the glass surface, water, and the minerals/salts in the water.  One way to effectively and completely remove all of the mineral deposits is with a super abrasive polish.  These polishes are usually based on a cerium oxide, silica, zirconium oxide, or diamond.   The application of these polishes are done by hand or with a machine and a variety of different pads.  The restoration professionals out there such as Marc Tanner focus on polishes.  I have had many conversations with Marc over the years.  He always tells me that every job is different.  So the most effective technique requires trial and error.  In my opinion "precision" stain removal can only be accomplished in the field with a technique based on a super abrasive polish.  Not with an acid.  There are many problems with acids that can very easily and very quickly cause damage to the glass that cannot be easily repaired.  So even though acids such as hydrofluoric, sulfuric, and ammonium bifluoride will quickly remove mineral deposits, they do react with the glass every time, and can do damage to the window that can bring in a lawsuit.

Written By Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

Tuesday, December 17, 2019

Wiljers Xlite Scrubber Sleeve

There was a time when I scraped everything!  But times have changed.  No I never was sued for scratching a million in glass.  But I have read stories.  I also have scratched my share of glass.  With metal razors, plastic scrappers, and even 0000 steel wool.  These days I am VERY careful.  The first thing I do when starting a new job is to check the surface of the glass.  Is it defective and does it have any kind of a metallic high tech coating?  Surface analysis is an absolute must these days.  However even then it becomes necessary to adopt safer techniques then metal razors.  Yes there are times when razors are perfectly safe and absolutely necessary.  I still do use them myself.  But I am becoming more familiar with alternate techniques.  Such as the new Xlite from Wiljer Specialty Cleaning Products.  Here are a couple of pictures of my own personal Xlite Sleeve.





It was a snowy day and these pictures were taken on the trunk of my pretty blue Civic.  You can see the darker yellow fibers in the fabric.  These are hard and course.  Much harder then the other fibers.  Just on one side of the sleeve so you can flip it if you want.  They are great for scrubbing light dirt that you might want to blade.  So now you don't have to.  Just one more technique to make cleaning glass more safe.

The Xlite is definitely lighter than other sleeves.  But it does hold enough water for most larger windows.  I have been working with this sleeve for about two months now and have been rather satisfied with it.  If you would like to give it a go just give Richie a call and pick one up.

Wiljer Specialty Cleaning Products
34 Front Street - Box266
Indian Orchard MA 01151
Phone 413-543-5333
EMail wiljer@yahoo.com
www.wiljer.com


Written by Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

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Thursday, December 5, 2019

Lets Work Together

If you have any special problem jobs that you need to do or price send me an email.  We can talk.

henrygroverjr@gmail.com

I am finally starting to work with people all around the world.  With the technology that we have today so many things are possible.  There really are no limits.  So I don't have to travel there.  But will be doing some travel over here on the east coast.  Just for the enjoyment of it.  I have been consulting with companies for 25 years.  Have visited many different states and looked at some very famous buildings.  It has been a tremendous amount of fun.  But all of this is nothing compared to what I can do now with the communications technology of the day.

This blog will start to include some of the stories of these different companies including pictures and videos that they send me.  Which I am already receiving.  This is actually VERY exciting!  And I am really looking forward to sharing with my readers.

Henry

Written by Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

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Monday, December 2, 2019

Smart Products for Coated Glass

The coatings industry is driving the glass industry.  This includes soft and hard low e coats, low maintenance glass, first surface reflective coatings, AR coated solar glass, and other high tech products.  This technology will continue.  Window cleaners have to deal with such surfaces.  What is of concern to us is the ignorance of the subcontractors that work around these windows.  When these windows are covered by paint, wood stain, concrete, hard water spots, silane and siloxane sealant rundown, and other contaminants they are according to GANA and the IWCA;... wasted.  The very first thing that you absolutely must do when you are introduced to such a building is make absolutely certain that the general contractor, maintenance company, and owner are aware of this fact.  Then if they want you to attempt to remove any of these contaminants, make sure you have a waiver in place signed and dated.

I don't believe any manufacturer has developed products for these surfaces.  No sealants, no restoration products.  It is just too niche.  Also many window cleaners have used acids, alkalies, and crude abrasives that have done damage that could not be corrected.  The windows have needed to be replaced.  This usually ends up in very large lawsuits.  One of the worst acids is hydrofluoric.  The only products that can be used for these surfaces are usually custom.  The best thing that a window cleaning company can do when they encounter a building with damaged coated glass is just walk away.

This blog is all about products.  Ones that others have developed.  And certain custom products.  I test out the commercial products and demonstrate such on the Glass Smart Product Development Youtube Channel.  Also I demonstrate the custom products that I have developed myself on my YT Channel.  My consulting work involves a blend of these two types of products along with an understanding of how to identify coated surfaces, defective glass surfaces, and more.  

Much of this however must happen on the job.  So when I can I like to travel to the job site so I can do my own testing and carry all of the custom and commercial products with me.  Although there are times because of distance that I must rely on the phone, pictures, videos and sending out different products, or having the window cleaners I work with order samples of different products direct from the manufacturers.  Which samples are usually free.

If you have any situations going on right now or planned, don't hesitate to send me an email so we can talk about it.

Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKzhmAWtlsHJiwRd6WrgGyA/videos


Sunday, October 20, 2019

The 55 Inch Super Soaper Wand


The Super Soaper was created with much help from Wiljer Specialty Cleaning Products who provided this beautiful white sleeve.  It has just the right amount of pile to hold onto just the right amount of water.  They truly do make the very best sleeves for the window cleaning industry.  More importantly however is that the owner is willing to work with us in developing different technologies.  I developed the Super Soaper as an ultra niche product.  Hoping it would get attention.

Wiljer Specialty Cleaning Products
34 Front Street - Box266
Indian Orchard MA 01151
Phone 413-543-5333
EMail wiljer@yahoo.com
www.wiljer.com

The other part of this invention of course is the Super Soaper Siphon.  It fits on the bottom of a two inch PVC pipe.  The water can come in but can't get out.  So it becomes displaced by the wand on the downward motion and wets the sleeve.  The upward motion of the wand draws water up from the bucket into the tube.  With this tube I can easily soap up a 55 inch wand from a one gallon bucket.  I will be doing a video showing how I built my Super Soaper System.  There will be continual updates and improvements.

This invention is NOT practical for just a few large windows.  Definitely NOT for smaller windows.  A "small" 22 inch is much easier to use.  It becomes practical ONLY when doing about twenty or more very large windows.  Such as at a dealership.  Certain commercial jobs have many very large plates that take a great deal of time to wet.  Soren created the Sorbo line of squeegees to deal with these large windows.  For  decades now this design has proven itself.  I see the Super Soaper wand as an addition to the very large squeegee.  It will likely not be picked up by any manufacturer as they will see it as too much of a niche product.  Ultra niche products are usually passed over by large manufacturers.  There simply is not enough money in them

Wiljer would be willing to make sleeves as big as 55 inches.  I am thinking that there are more people out there that would want a 36, 42, or a 48 inch wand.  Any of these sizes are easy to make.  I bought a very small swivel wetter handle from Sorbo and unscrewed the handle which is held on by two screws.  Then I took a long metal handle from a broom.  Removed the broom and plastic ends.  Then screwed on the Sorbo swivel handle.  I did have to drill a couple holes in the handle with a drillpress.  That was the most difficult part.  Once done I just slipped on the sleeve and snapped it secure.

Improvements will be shortening the wetting time to five seconds, and learning what the percentage of time reduction is over a 22 inch wand on the same large window.  I need to demonstrate this improvement in a video.  As we all know time is king.  Commercial window cleaning is all about time.  Which is why I am very surprised there are not more videos out there demonstrating the super channel squeegees.  Instead we see many very small squeegees with wetting pads that flip over.  These are great for small or average size windows.  But when you have fifty windows that are twelve feet high and six feet wide give me a super channel any day of the week.  That is all I have to say right now!

Written By Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

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Monday, October 14, 2019

Glass Surface Chemistry

In pure water chemistry one out of every 10,000,000 water molecules is dissociated into a hydroxide 'and' a hydronium ion.  Hence the water maintains a neutral pH.  It is neither acidic or alkaline.  If there are more hydronium ions (H3O) than hydroxide ions the pH is below 7 and the "pure water" is acid.  If there are more hydroxide ions then hydronium ions the pH will be above 7 and the water will be alkaline or a base.  Cleaning solutions use alkaline chemistries because most films and dirt on glass are hydrocarbon in nature.  Which are acidic.  Hence the two chemistries neutralize and cleaning happens.  However it is the hydronium ions that swap places with the sodium atoms in the near surface of soda lime/window glass.  The hydronium ions and sodium atoms inter-diffuse.   Which is the reason why Dr Paul Duffer says that glass is "alive".  It is very easy to change the chemistry of a glass surface with pure water if it is acidic.  And especially if the ambient temperature is raised.  An other way of saying this is that glass surfaces are very reactive.  This is demonstrated in our work every day.

Any window cleaner that has been working for ten years or more knows that not all surfaces are the same.  If you doubt this just start checking clean dry surfaces with a penny.  Then feel and listen.  They can pop and fizz as in the video here.  Or just be very rough.  They can also be perfectly smooth.  Not rough with no sound.



Everything I have been describing is what happens naturally.  We also change glass surfaces by polishing with microcrystalline super-abrasives such as cerium oxide.  Certain acids such as hydrofluoric, sulfuric, and ammoniumbifluoride do the same thing in a matter of thirty seconds.  Whenever hard water spots are removed with polishing slurries the glass becomes rough, very easy to scratch, and a stain sponge.  For all intents and purposes the surface is now DEFECTIVE!  This is an issue that no one in the window cleaning industry has recognized.  

I remember a building that Marc Tanner told me about that he restored.  It was four stories.  The first three stories released the stain with ease.  But the fourth floor was a total bear.  Come to find out an etchant/acid had been used before to remove the stains from just the fourth floor.  Then the stain reformed.  

It is also true that stains come off reflective metallic surfaces much easier than clear transparent glass.  Which releases stains much easier than dark tinted glass.  Dark glass can be an absolute bear.  Especially if it has been polished or "restored" with an acid such as HF.  Usually etchants will destroy dark glass.  They will leave an orange peal effect, or discolor.

The days of simply cleaning windows with a buck, mop, and a squeegee are long gone.  When we take on a store front we take on the maintenance and protection of the windows we clean.  This is true for window cleaners and auto detailers who work on vehicular glass. 

Vision glass that has been restored by having water stains removed should absolutely be sealed with a hydrophobic sealant.  This protects the window surface from scratches and more stains.  Here is a demonstration by Marc Tanner showing off  Nanovations NG1010.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=17&v=-9-QQPwqW9Q

Written by Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

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Thursday, October 3, 2019

Water Marks

Water spots come from water.  The spots are mineral deposits left on glass by evaporation.  Water drops always form on top of old spots.  There they continue the process of mineral deposition.  But water does something more than deposit minerals.  The atoms within the water molecules react with the atoms in glass surfaces.  This is an exchange reaction which results in a breakdown of what is called the moderator matrix.  In particular the leaching of the sodium atom.  In enough time and at a high enough temperature time there is a breakdown of the silicon oxygen network which is the builder matrix.  When both the moderator and builder matrix has been broken down the near glass surface has gone through total dissolution.

Water marks are very similar to water spots. The greatest difference being dynamics.  Water spots are caused by static water drops.  Water marks are created by water drops that run down vertical glass surfaces.  Without "doing the science" as my friend Paul West says, it isn't possible to know exactly and to what extent the glass has undergone total dissolution or exactly how many minerals have been deposited on the water "tract".  Just as water drops tend to form on top of water spots, so do water drops tend to run down the same water tract.  After years of this activity visible curvy lines form.  They are much easier to see in direct sunlight.  And appear as dark diffuse lines.  Sometimes they run the full length of the window.  Sometimes they just run halfway down.  Enough water creates an interesting pattern of water marks.  When they form on the inside of a window they can be more easily seen from the outside looking in.  But are easily revealed with your breath in fog.

Water marks can be very difficult to remove just like spots.  I am guessing this is true because they are the result of etched glass.  I do know of one case of water marks that I was not able to remove them using cerium oxide.  It was necessary to use a diamond compound by hand.  The compound was based on artificial diamonds of about 3 microns particle size.  The diamond compound completely removed the marks.  Such that when fogged by my breath a film developed that was completely smooth and showed no marks at all.

I was able to locate a hard water spot remover today from Envirosafe called Waterspot Pro that was able to completely remove these water marks.  It is also much less expensive than diamond compound!  Here below is the purchasing and contact info.

WATERSPOT PRO

Sold By Envirosafe Inc.
61535 S Hwy 97 suite# 5-415
Bend, OR 97702

www.envirosafeinc.com
800-856-7233

Written by Henry Grover Jr.
henrygroverjr@gmail.com

To receive these posts in your inbox just type your address in the box at the top right, "Follow by Email".